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Post by "The Trilogy" on Aug 20, 2008 10:20:20 GMT -5
I will start off by being very blunt about this.
Michael Phelps isn't even the best athlete in THIS YEARS olympics.[glow=red,2,300][/glow]
Yes I added the emphasis because that point had to be made. As for the article...it was well written, thoughtful, and right out of the school of Temporary Media Hysteria. Let's be serious here...
1) You left out Jordan's olympic accomplishments too..in which he arguably played against as good competition as Phelps swam against.
2) Let's be serious here: Athletes don't swim. Growing up, your best athletes go to football, basketball, soccer, baseball...then, and then only, are you looking at your swimmers. It's not to say swimmers aren't athletic, but it is an expensive sport (a la lacrosse, gymnastics) if you want to be very good, either because of pool times, trainers, travel to tournaments, prep schools, etc, that most of the country cannot afford. Therefore, by and large, Michael Phelps is the smartest kid with down syndrom. Great accomplishment, best in his time, but not the best athlete.
I could say more, but basically that gets my point across. Sorry if it sounds a little choppy, but I'm watching Greece/Argentina right now and this game is GREAT!
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Post by Number 5 on Aug 20, 2008 15:17:14 GMT -5
I will start off by being very blunt about this. Michael Phelps isn't even the best athlete in THIS YEARS olympics.[glow=red,2,300][/glow] Yes I added the emphasis because that point had to be made. As for the article...it was well written, thoughtful, and right out of the school of Temporary Media Hysteria. Let's be serious here... 1) You left out Jordan's olympic accomplishments too..in which he arguably played against as good competition as Phelps swam against. 2) Let's be serious here: Athletes don't swim. Growing up, your best athletes go to football, basketball, soccer, baseball...then, and then only, are you looking at your swimmers. It's not to say swimmers aren't athletic, but it is an expensive sport (a la lacrosse, gymnastics) if you want to be very good, either because of pool times, trainers, travel to tournaments, prep schools, etc, that most of the country cannot afford. Therefore, by and large, Michael Phelps is the smartest kid with down syndrom. Great accomplishment, best in his time, but not the best athlete. I could say more, but basically that gets my point across. Sorry if it sounds a little choppy, but I'm watching Greece/Argentina right now and this game is GREAT! I agree. Phelps may be the best swimmer and the best story of the olympics but one could argue that a guy like Usain Bolt or even LeBron James are the best athletes in the olympics based on athleticism. But there is no chance this guy is the best ever. Yes he won 8 golds and all that but you cant be the best ever if your sport only is relevant for 2 weeks every 4 years. Jordan and Tiger did/do it year in and year out and they've overcome more obstacles in this career than this guy can imagine. Don't get me wrong I was cheering for him just like the next guy cause I love to witness special moments but greatest ever is a huge stretch. I think you might have been caught up in a little too much in the hype when writing this article and the truth will really set in to you after a few more weeks. BTW I'm still not fully convinced he won that second to last race. Looks to me in those replays and stuff that the other guy was touching the wall first but thats another story. Also, how come no one every mentions lance armstrong as one of the greatest ever? He won wut like 7 straight tour de france? After all the cancer stuff. Is it cause he was accused of performance enhancing? Anyways bottom line, Phelps is good and all but to be better than the guys you mentioned he's gonna have to do a lot more. I'm surprised only two people have read this article and not replied with their opinions. Where you guys at?
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Post by Evan *aka* London Loudmouth on Aug 20, 2008 18:12:29 GMT -5
I am going to have to disagree with the comment made by trilogy in which stated " Michael Phelps isnt even the best athlete in THIS YEARS olympics." While I somewhat agree with the idea that swimming isnt really a sport, that does not mean what so ever that swimmers dont train as hard and put in as much work as other athletes in other sports. In my opinion, swimming is one of the toughest sports to train for and while yes obviously all other Olympians trained for the past number of years for this August, I really don't see how a Lebron James could even be compared to Mr. Phelps. They are two different sports and hence require two drastically different types of training, and one is played on a hardwood court, while the other is in a chlroine filled hole. Without a doubt... I would say Phelps is the most athletic olympian this in this summer's events. In terms of Best ever though, thats a very bold statement, things were much different back when Spitz took home the 8 medals, and I just don't think winning 8 golds should classify one as the best olympian ever. 20 would do the trick for me.
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Post by "The Trilogy" on Aug 20, 2008 18:27:47 GMT -5
I'll put it this way:
Is Phelps stronger than Lebron? No.
Is Phelps faster than Lebron at top speed? No.
Is Phelps faster than Lebron at initial step? No.
Can Phelps jump higher than Lebron? No.
Can Phelps change direction (aka more agile) than Lebron? No.
Does Phelps have better stamina than Lebron? Probably.
Soo..essentially, if you take all of the elements that would make up a pretty great overall athlete, Lebron beats Phelps in all of them. Phelps may have more stamina, and clearly is a better swimmer, but there's no other athletic competition in which you would choose Michael Phelps to do better than Lebron. If it were bottom of the 9th, you'd want Lebron up. 4th and 1 on the goal line, you're handing it to Lebron. To a game winning goal, a key penalty kick save, or the anchor leg of a race...Lebron Lebron Lebron (unless its swimming, then you'd want Phelps.)
I'll put it this way. If someone had a gun to your head and said, "You're life depends on an athlete of your choosing winning a series of athletic competitions, encompassing a variety of skills and sports specialties. You have a choice between LeBron James and Michael Phelps. Choose."
Who ya pickin?
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Post by Evan *aka* London Loudmouth on Aug 20, 2008 19:06:23 GMT -5
Neither... gotta go with ESahr.
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Post by Number 5 on Aug 21, 2008 14:04:30 GMT -5
LeBron James is a freak athlete and I agree with Trilogy here that if you threw him in any other sport such as track or football or wutever he has the athleticism to be successful. Phelps, not so much. I'd put money that LeBron would even do better in swimming than Phelps would do at basketball.
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Post by Jean on Aug 25, 2008 10:17:41 GMT -5
Phelps is a great swimmer, we all know this. Swimmers train a ridiculous amount, and from what I know they follow a strict diet. You really must respect the guy for competing against swimmer's that are the greatest in the world and coming up on top with an 8 medal record. However, I do not see comparing medals and awards in 2 different sports as fair (Jordan & Phelps), as I also do not agree in comparing 2 athletes in different sports and competitions as fair. Every athlete has a specific training regimen to follow, and to have enough passion, and determination to follow through and be known as one of the greatest in their sport is remarkable! That being said, you cannot just say Phelps is comparable to Jordan based on championships/gold medals. What did it take to get there? That's where the real comparing comes into play. To be the best of your sport, is an accomplishment in itself. Jordan couldn't beat Phelps in the pool, but Phelps sure can't take Jordan on the court either.
When it comes to athleticism...LeBron, was clearly just born with extreme athletic talent. Of course he trains hard, which is why he is The King, but I am sure Phelps needed to train a bit harder all his life to get where he is now. Respect. I agree with Trilogy and 5 though...and I should add to maybe spark some controversy...I have this theory that if you are athletic and coordinated enough to play basketball, you are one of the sweetest athletes out there.
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Post by "The Trilogy" on Aug 25, 2008 10:36:26 GMT -5
That theory would work....except that you were somewhat athletic and coordinated enough to play basketball....and you are the furthest thing from a sweet athlete.
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Post by Jean on Aug 25, 2008 11:46:09 GMT -5
True, which is why I went to Stevens. I know my own strengths/weaknesses. More importantly, what is being said here, is that bball players use many aspects of physical fitness. On a spectrum of strength and speed/agility they are placed in the center. Any other sports being placed there would be just as sweet. Football, hockey...
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Post by Number 5 on Aug 25, 2008 12:10:55 GMT -5
I think the point we're trying to make is that Phelps is good but not on the same level as guys like MJ and Tiger. These are guys who have won countless titles and awards year in and year out. Phelps not so much. MJ and Tiger battled through adversity. Phelps had water in his goggles. There is no comparison. If Phelps comes back in 4 years and comes close to this performance then maybe we can put him inthe same category as those guys.
The LeBron comparison isn't one that is comparing basketball to swimming. I think my point is that I would take LeBron in any sport because his athleticism is unmatched. Phelps can only swim.
I do agree that basketball players should be regarded as some of the top athletes because training for it requires a great deal of different skills like strength, speed, agility, explosiveness, as well as the mastering of baskeball fundamentals as skills. Few sports can compare to this.
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Post by Mortal Fatality on Aug 25, 2008 18:53:32 GMT -5
Ok, so this thread is crazy. I'm going to try to make a few comments to as many of these ridiculous statements as possible.
First of all, Mark Spitz took home 7 gold medals, not 8.
Second of all, comparing any swimmer to any baller is not a comparison at all. They require COMPLETELY different skill sets. A swimmer's VO2max is significantly higher than most athletes, because the controlled breathing allows more oxygen per breath to be drawn. Basketball requires great hand-eye coordination, foot speed and balance, and good depth perception, along with an above average reaction time and real time decision making. Swimming requires crazy stamina, the ability to control breathing, and a retardedly fluid motion. Comparing these sports is like comparing apples to oranges.
Thirdly, how can you say that Phelps is not on the same level as Tiger or MJ? Don't get me wrong, MJ is one of my idols. But seriously? Michael Phelps is the most dominant athlete in his sport, period. He has set dozens and dozens of world records. He beats everybody. Tiger loses matches, and tournaments. Tiger is a freak too, all of these guys are tremendous. I'm just saying, there is absolutely no solid argument that can say that Phelps is not on the same level as these guys.
Obviously, those of you who say that swimming is not a real sport have never swam much. Swimming is one of the top three most physically taxing sports in the world. Basketball is not. Before you say anything, train in both, and see what kicks your ass more. For instance, if you want to compare Phelps's workouts with Lebron's workouts...here's some juice for ya. Michael Phelps burns about 8,000-10,000 calories a day. His muscles can handle 1.5 times the lactic acid of the average person, and his heart pumps twice as much blood, 8 gallons/minute. Are you serious? This guy has to eat 8,000-10,000 calories EVERY DAY just to SURVIVE during his training periods. Yes, basketball is a very physically demanding sport, trust me, I play basketball. I also swim, and play 6 or 7 other sports. Let's face it; Lebron, or MJ, never expended 10,000 calories a day, ever.
Look at this olympics, now. Michael Phelps swam 17 races. Seventeen, in about a week. He had to swim against the best swimmers in the world, set a world record, talked to the press, and then had to go warm down for his next race. Are you kidding me? That is not a freak of nature? I love baskeball and football as much as the next guy. Lebron James is my favorite NBA player, and athlete for that matter. But there is just no way that you can say anything else but dominance about Phelps.
What he did this olympics was just too freakish not to be called the best athletic performance of these olympics. I'm not going to say ever, because that after is a pretty hardcore statement. I don't think that statement can be made ever. But as for the 2008 Beijing games, Michael Phelps was without a doubt the top athletic performer.
That's my ramble. It was ridiculously long. If you read it, Kudos. I just can't help myself when someone deserving of such an accolade gets drilled.
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Post by Number 5 on Aug 26, 2008 10:46:43 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was trying to take away anything from what Phelps accomplished this summer. He was a dominant swimmer. I don't know the history of swimmers like i would know basketball or wutever so I don't know about best swimmers ever and all that.
My point with the LeBron comparison is that he is a better athlete. I'm not saying his olympic performance is better. I am saying when you talk about athleticism I'm choosing LeBron over Phelps in all athletic competitions except swimming. Although training to be a swimmer is not something I've done there is no way I can just let it be said that training for basketball or football isn't a difficult task. Calorie intake is great but thats just casue it takes a lot of energy to swim. I understand that but other than the breathing part I don't see anywhere near as much skills that need to be mastered like in a sport such as basketball. Training as a pro baller is just as intense in my opinion. Just because there hasnt been a recent nbc special on what kobe or lebron do to train doesn't mean that it isn't as intense as what Phelps does.
By the way Phelps maybe have won 8 but Usain Bolt was the more impressive and dominant performer in the olympics in my opinion.
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Post by Mortal Fatality on Aug 26, 2008 13:01:36 GMT -5
Of course Kobe and Lebron train hard. I've trained harder for basketball than any other sport. These guys are all world class athletes. I'm not even saying Phleps is better than these guys. I'm just saying that you shouldn't say he is NOT up to par with what they do. I'd suggest training in the pool, and then training for basketball, and see which one kicks your ass more. I guarantee you that you'll burn way more when swimming.
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Post by "The Trilogy" on Aug 26, 2008 13:35:13 GMT -5
I will try to avoid sounding pompous, but chances are I've probably done more sports competitively than most of the people here:
Football, Basketball, Lacrosse, Indoor Lacrosse, Track, and Boxing
Without question I will say the most difficult sport to actually train for is Boxing. Here's a test: Go outside, run in place while side stepping, keeping yourself bent at the knees the whole time, holding your arms up, and try throwing 85 punches (correct punches, not backyard brawl punches, but serious jabs/hooks/etc). Do that for 3 minutes, without stop. Then take a minute rest..and then do that exact thing 11 more times.
To make it realistic, have someone punching you in the face and stomach while you're trying to do this.
By far training for boxing was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, because it combines all of the endurance of swimming and running, plus explosive power in the lower body necessary for provided power in your punches. Agility to stay on the feet and dodge punch, with strength to not only throw a punch and keep your arms up, but also take a punch and not fall on your face.
If you really want your ass kicked, go train for a full week doing boxing. It'll trump basketball and swimming.
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Post by Mortal Fatality on Aug 26, 2008 14:04:51 GMT -5
Boxing was one of the sports I included along with swimming as an ass kicking sport. Along with competitive rowing.
I've trained for football, basketball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, swimming, tennis, baseball, handball, boxing and taekwondo.
I don't think boxing is way more difficult than swimming, as both involve a complete, full body workout along with intense cardiovascular training. Both are ridiculously taxing on the body and mind.
Basketball is not close.
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